Anthropometric Global Warming.

[J-C]

I'll start the debate with posting this video:

You Tube

Vaclav Klaus (President of the Czech Republic) makes fantastic points. What do you all think of the Green Movement? I'm particularly interested in the views of people who have researched the matter thoroughly. Look up some Green quotes - they're quite scary:

1) "Now, in a widening sphere of decisions, the costs of error are so exorbitant that we need to act on theory alone, which is to say on prediction alone. It follows that the reputation of scientific prediction needs to be enhanced. But that can happen, paradoxically, only if scientists disavow the certainty and precision that they normally insist on. Above all, we need to learn to act decisively to forestall predicted perils, even while knowing that they may never materialize. We must take action, in a manner of speaking, to preserve our ignorance. There are perils that we can be certain of avoiding only at the cost of never knowing with certainty that they were real."

Jonathan Shell, author of Our Fragile Earth
(Translation: It doesn't matter that there is no scientific proof for our claims, we will push it through anyway)


2) "A global climate treaty must be implemented even if there is no scientific evidence to back the greenhouse effect."

-Richard Benedict, an employee for the State Department working on assignment for the Conservation Foundation


3) "Childbearing [should be] a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license.... All potential parents [should be] required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing."

David Brower, Friends of the Earth


4) "We in the Green movement, aspire to a cultural model in which the killing of a forest will be considered more contemptible and more criminal than the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian brothels."

Carl Amery, Green Party of West Germany

I pray earnestly for the swift demise of the Green movement! Anyone else see parallels with the beginnings of Stalinist Russia, or Nazi Germany?

On a side note (and I don't want this topic to go down the presidential campaign route): This is a key political issue. Be very careful who you vote for, as one party will bring all of the above in.

[Chrs]

The majority have ruled, so it is impossible for a dissenting minority to exist.

Obviously, there is nothing to debate here.

[J-C]

Originally Posted by Chrs

The majority have ruled, so it is impossible for a dissenting minority to exist.

The 'majority', and 'minority' being whom?

Any input on any of the quotes posted, or the video? Or the word 'Anthropometric'?

Originally Posted by Chrs

Obviously, there is nothing to debate here.

The debate is raging, believe it or not. Over 36,000 scientists in the US alone (a quarter of which hold PHD's), have signed a petition stating that they do not believe in Global Warming, as you see it in the media (i.e. they do not believe that man is at fault). Of course, the liberal media do not tell you or me any of this.

[Chrs]

I was merely being amused by the first thirty seconds of the clip. He makes his point well.

The only time I've seen "anthropometric" before was when I was studying relative finger length and hyperextensivity. I assume that in this case it refers to the degree to which man is responsible for global warming.

I agree that the Green movement can be extreme (some of my friends have been known to refer to Greenpeace as a terrorist organization).

[darran]

Their was a documentary on the BBC a few months ago now that was based on the whole opposition to accepted thought on global warming. (I just checked iplayer but its not up any longer.)
They basically went through all the arguments that were used to oppose the idea of global warming and then their counter arguments. As someone who doesn't have a vast knowledge of the particulars it seemed to me that most of research was pretty straight on. They went through the hockey stick graph, the medieval warm period, something about cities being hotter than the surrounding countryside, satellite data and how it at first vindicated the arguments against before they realised their calculations were off. Then about some organisation that was set up by large business' who had a vested interest in not accepting the damaging effect of greenhouse gases that had eventually disbanded with most of the partners accepting global warming.

The whole environmentalists!= fascists thing is fairly overdone though. And no, I cant say I see the similarities between Stalin's/Hitler's regime and the Green movement. Heck, if you wanted to pick something like that I'm sure the 'war on terror' has had a far greater effect on restriction of freedoms and uniting everyone, pretty much what the interviewer was painting the environmentalists as.

As far as the quotes go, I'm sure you can find a bunch of crazy people associated with any particular movement. It doesn't change the fact that the majority of them are well meaning people who genuinely care and campaign because they want to preserve what we have.

[Rejoice23]

The Green Movement is such a wide ranging thing that I don't think I could just say I totally agree or disagree with it. There are some very good things coming out of it. For instance, alternative fuels will be needed in the future and this movement is helping to encourage their development. However, saying things such as a forest's existence is more important than a child's life if clearly a little extreme.

[Daniel7]

Originally Posted by darran

Their was a documentary on the BBC a few months ago now that was based on the whole opposition to accepted thought on global warming. (I just checked iplayer but its not up any longer.)
They basically went through all the arguments that were used to oppose the idea of global warming and then their counter arguments. As someone who doesn't have a vast knowledge of the particulars it seemed to me that most of research was pretty straight on. They went through the hockey stick graph, the medieval warm period, something about cities being hotter than the surrounding countryside, satellite data and how it at first vindicated the arguments against before they realised their calculations were off. Then about some organisation that was set up by large business' who had a vested interest in not accepting the damaging effect of greenhouse gases that had eventually disbanded with most of the partners accepting global warming.

I remember watching that. At the time I had just finished studying for several hundred hours, looking at both sides of the global warming debate so I watched it with baited interest. Part of my job was to work out the effect that global warming would have on the industry I work in. So I started researching global warming at first for work (honestly at the time found the topic to be (what I thought) an open and shut case). But as I researched different aspects, I discovered that there was this whole other side of the story to global warming. I started to research both sides, and try to determine for myself what was actually happening. I've been contemplating writing a book title "What's a Christian to think of Global Warming".

Like I said I remember that video. But I was forunate to be able to watch it from a particular viewpoint that I knew a bit about what they were discussing. I remember studying in high school, how Hitler gained so much power. It was via propaganda. Was it true? No. It was fabricated, but sold to the people in his nation and people believed it. The video you refer to had one goal in mind - propaganda - to make people think that anyone who opposes global warming is insane and/or working for big business with a vested interest. It's goal was to discredit anyone with an opposing viewpoint, so that people will not even listen.

Do you remember two years ago when Al Gore (the guy who once took credit for inventing the internet) starting making comments, "The debate is over". He laughed and smerked at anyone who opposed global warming. Do you know how many times he was invited to real debates on the issue and he turned down every single one, labeling them as insane and working for big business. Propaganda to push an agenda.

What agenda? Trillions of dollars!!! It's happening right now.

Propaganda is generally something that is based around a thought/theory. Global warming went from a theory to fact in the worlds eyes (virtually overnight) just because Al Gore said it did. Absolutely nothing else changed. There was no new data to prove anything. Get the world media on board, have them say that it's proven and people will believe it. Where's the proof?
The problem - they had to write the software programs to determine what effect CO2 had on temperature... they wrote the program to show the results they got. Does that make sense? If I program a system so that for every 0.1 degree rise I input it rises the sea level 0.6 metres, then when I get infront of people and type in 2 degrees, it's going to show results based on the information I programmed, and it will make the world look like it's ending. Does that make sense? Then they pass it off as fact, when they programmed it to do it like that in the beginning. I need one hundred million dollars for more research, please. Propaganda and the money is pouring in.

The whole environmentalists!= fascists thing is fairly overdone though. And no, I cant say I see the similarities between Stalin's/Hitler's regime and the Green movement.

The above quotes are true. Did you know that there is a petition signed by over one million people for a law to be formed stating that anyone who opposes 'global warming' will be thrown in jail and the key thrown away. I'm serious!

It's real. I have friends who are very much involved in the whole conservation/greenpeace thing and I've had a look at their material. Putting their new age agenda aside, they are seriously paving the way for ...

You know all the things the bible says will happen in the 'last days'? Right now, global warming is the scapegoat for all of those. The prophets will stand and declare God's judgement on the earth and the world will turn, mock, laugh and say, 'it's global warming'. Think about it...

As far as the quotes go, I'm sure you can find a bunch of crazy people associated with any particular movement. It doesn't change the fact that the majority of them are well meaning people who genuinely care and campaign because they want to preserve what we have.

I agree with you there. Every movement has the extremes. But the problem with these extremes is that it's getting far too much attention and following. Other than the economy, right now global warming is the only other issue likely to create a one world government, and it's all backed on theory which has more proof against than for (when you actually look at all the facts).

I'm not saying to waste or destroy the earth. I'm saying be careful what messanger you follow. The earth will go nuts, Jesus Christ will return, but that doesn't mean that we have to follow that cloud/crowd.

[J-C]

Originally Posted by Rejoice23

The Green Movement is such a wide ranging thing that I don't think I could just say I totally agree or disagree with it. There are some very good things coming out of it. For instance, alternative fuels will be needed in the future and this movement is helping to encourage their development. However, saying things such as a forest's existence is more important than a child's life if clearly a little extreme.

Did you know that there is more oil under the Rocky mountains than in the entire Middle East...? Oh how prices would tumble, if environmentalists weren't so keen on using fascist techniques to promote the new communism...

Do you know what Alternative Fuels do? Not all are bad, but let's take a look at the Enviromentalist's (sorry, couldn't resist) favourite: Biofuels.

• They are worse for the environment than normal fuels (New Scientist Article), (Natural News Article)
• We live in a world where many starve to death, and land that could be used for growing food is instead growing such things as sugar cane, soy beans, palm oil, rapeseed, etc (some of which can be used for food) to make biofuels.
• The despicable EU (Marxist organisation, generally unwanted by the people) has made it more profitable for poor third world farmers to grow crops for biofuel, rather than using their land to grow food. Our very own Stalin, Gordon Brown, called for a 10% increase in biofuels (which damage the Earth more than conventional fuels), then he realised that people were starving, so reduced the figure to 5%, as "800million poor people depend on a stable rice and staple food market, or they will starve". But, farmers had already heard about larger profits for making biofuels, and as poor people seeking more money, they unwittingly create their own demise.
• Now, the EU is giving US $200 million to help people worst affected by food shortages. Hang on a sec, they were the ones that started this crazy rush for biofuels... So they started being idiotic, and now they are mis-spending our taxes putting it right. Go figure.

The Green movement is communism, using Marxist-Fascist techniques, and unless we put a stop to it, the minority rich will get richer, the poorer will become much poorer, and we will have our very own Stalin, or set of Stalins, ruling the majority of the world.


Thanks for your post Daniel7, it's good to see that there are others here who have an astute awareness of what is happening. Combined with the economic crisis, I can see the formings of a one-world government - how I hope I am wrong. How I hope that others will wake up to what is happening under their very noses before it is too late. How I pray for the downfall of evil men like Al Gore, et al. Will anyone else wake up and smell the coffee?

Get you hands on...:

Blue Planet in Green Shackles: What is...

and/or

The Green Agenda, By Barry Napier (available as an e-book if you don't want to wait around for delivery, or perhaps if you wish to save the planet by refusing to have it delivered in a gas-guzzling lorry. Sorry, humour me Perhaps I shouldn't joke about something as serious as this, though...).

...If you want to find out more.

God bless!


EDIT: To those who said that we will always get mad people in every movement, reassess: Most of the mad people are in high-up levels in Green organisations. That is, they are major driving forces in the Green Movement, and in the advancement of Green ideology.

[darran]

Originally Posted by J-C

Did you know that there is more oil under the Rocky mountains than in the entire Middle East...? Oh how prices would tumble, if environmentalists weren't so keen on using fascist techniques to promote the new communism...

meh, theirs oil everywhere, the problem is that its so incredibly expensive to make it viable that while oil is so cheap from current sources no one is going to waste money on it. A fine example of this is in Alberta Canada where they extricate bitumen from sand, at current prices its only financially viable to remove 10% of the predicted total deposits, if prices continue to rise and technology increases it will become more sustainable, much like the Rockies will.

The fact that the Bush administration is attempting to take advantage of the current high prices and sense of fear surrounding energy supply by effectively selling off leases while theirs still a huge negative impact from current technology on things such as water supplies is rightly opposed.

I'll write some more to both Daniel and yourself later but I'm running late for a lecture already and this was something I knew about off the top of my head

EDIT

I have a few questions before I start so I know exactly what the problems you have with the 'Green Movement' and to save us some time on the 'ol back and forth

Firstly, which part of accepted thought on global warming do you have a problem with? That the earth is getting warmer? that its a man made problem? that it'll have an impact on our lives?

When you refer to the 'Green movement' who do you actually mean? The political party? anyone who wants to improve air/water/noise pollution? Just those who support the need for the burning of less fossil fuels and against deforestation? People who campaign to protect animals/habits at the expense of business?

Also this bit confuses me;

The Green movement is communism, using Marxist-Fascist techniques, and unless we put a stop to it, the minority rich will get richer, the poorer will become much poorer, and we will have our very own Stalin, or set of Stalin's, ruling the majority of the world.

The rich getting richer and poor getting poorer is pretty much the opposite of Communism, and Marxism/Fascism are poles apart as well. So which bits in particular make you think of either of these ideologies?

I'd love a link to the petition you mention as well Daniel.

Hopefully if you could clear your stance up a bit we can get down to the nitty gritty, we may even agree on some bits! (like how terrible the policy on biofuels has been)

[Daniel7]

Originally Posted by J-C

They are worse for the environment than normal fuels (New Scientist Article), (Natural News Article)

I hadn't heard that one. WOW~~~

Combined with the economic crisis, I can see the formings of a one-world government - how I hope I am wrong. How I hope that others will wake up to what is happening under their very noses before it is too late. How I pray for the downfall of evil men like Al Gore, et al.

Whilst I agree with a lot of what you've said, your last comment does require a bit of attention. I do not believe it's God's will for us to be praying for the downfall of any person. Whilst I don't think Al Gore is a good, decent individual, I don't think anyone should pray for his downfall. Maybe, just maybe God is using Al for His purposes. Kind of like the whole hardening of Pharoah's heart. Certain things are pre-ordained and if Al is part of that, then our prayer should be that God keep us in His will, show us His truth, help us to decern, etc... not for an individuals downfall.

Get you hands on...:

Blue Planet in Green Shackles: What is endangered? Climate or Freedom?, By Vaclav Klaus, President of the Czech Republic


and/or

The Green Agenda, By Barry Napier (available as an e-book if you don't want to wait around for delivery, or perhaps if you wish to save the planet by refusing to have it delivered in a gas-guzzling lorry. Sorry, humour me Perhaps I shouldn't joke about something as serious as this, though...).

...If you want to find out more.

Great, just what I need... more reading. No, seriously, thanks for the links.