Ecumenical Movement

[PureOxygen]

Ok, a related question. So from what I understand, Ecumenism is meant to "unite" all these churches (I won't go into the relativistic implications) so what about doctrines like this, made official at the Council of Trent, that are very significant and a bit problematic for some:

Originally Posted by THIRTEENTH SESSION, CANONS ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST

"If anyone denies that in the sacrament of the most Holy Eucharist are contained truly, really and substantially the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ, but says that He is in it only as in a sign, or figure or force, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist, Canon 1).

and similarly, this:

Originally Posted by THIRTEENTH SESSION, CANONS ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST

"If anyone says that Christ received in the Eucharist is received spiritually only and not also sacramentally and really, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist, Canon 8 ).

As a non-Catholic, am I spose to simply accept that Catholics think I am anathema... which basically means damned as a heretic?

[Rigorous Truth]

Originally Posted by Queen Esther

Unity yes, but like I said, this idea would create more of a rift in the body of Christ. Compromising my beliefs with catholics, orthodox, and others whom I don't believe the same way I do.

What we would end up having in common is our hate for the other person who doesn't believe the same way we do. There's a way for unity, but with the way we the church are today. This is totally unrealistic and wrong in my eyes.

We need to be united in the single truth, not a bunch of half-truths and lies mixed in.

[JohnSolo]

Originally Posted by Queen Esther

Unity yes, but like I said, this idea would create more of a rift in the body of Christ. Compromising my beliefs with catholics, orthodox, and others whom I don't believe the same way I do.

What we would end up having in common is our hate for the other person who doesn't believe the same way we do. There's a way for unity, but with the way we the church are today. This is totally unrealistic and wrong in my eyes.

You are in no way compromising your beliefs... you are meant to know what you believe and stand firm on that and yet allow our common love for Jesus christ look past theological differences.
The only way hate would sprout up is through ones own arrogance and pride. Not very Christ like and once again I ask why did Jesus say that in John 17 if it was unrealistic and furthermore wrong. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" Phil 4:13

[Queen Esther]

Compromising my beliefs when the person next to me is praying "to" Mary?? Or when the preacher gets up to deliver the message preaches that Mary was sinless?? Nothing about that is Biblical at all, and yet they want me to worship God?

Hate and corrupt would sprout like wildfire, I forsee this being something Satan uses to break the church up and to bring glory to himself.

[Rigorous Truth]

Originally Posted by JohnSolo

You are in no way compromising your beliefs... you are meant to know what you believe and stand firm on that and yet allow our common love for Jesus christ look past theological differences.
The only way hate would sprout up is through ones own arrogance and pride. Not very Christ like and once again I ask why did Jesus say that in John 17 if it was unrealistic and furthermore wrong. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" Phil 4:13

Thats like saying we should pray with muslims because we both believe in one God. It doesn't make it right because there are major differences.

[JohnSolo]

A preacher would not bring up teachings on Mary at an ecumenical meeting, I thought I made that clear. If your so prejudiced that you couldn't sit next to a catholic then well I can't argue with that.

No it isn't saying praying with Muslims is the same because we know that Allah and our God Yaweh are different God's. Once again that is not ecumenism.

[Queen Esther]

How do you know that they wouldn't? I would have an issue with it because that belief it totally unscriptural, why do I need another intercessor besides Christ? The supreme intercessor?

Ok, let me ask this, Some believe in salvation you must be baptized, others believe you have to be baptized as a child etc....so how would they teach salvation?? (the most vital part of Christianity)

[JohnSolo]

Why is it an issue for you? it is not like they would be forcing their beliefs on you and a belief at that which isn't even necessary to slavation. Isn't that the main point? Salvation?

Like I said before you are still meant to participate in your own denominations beliefs/church etc so each woulddo his or her own thing at his own church. Preaching on that would come from the bible as it is a general source that all agree on.

[Queen Esther]

Like I said, how would they teach salvation??? Since there's a diverse disagreement between the denominations.

Also how would they teach the second coming of Christ since there's a diverse disagreement with that as well.

*How would the 7th Day Adventist fit into this, since they literally "keep the sabbath"*

[PureOxygen]

Originally Posted by SIXTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING JUSTIFICATION

"If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy, which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 12).

Basically, this says that if you believe in salvation by grace through faith alone, (Ephesians 2:8-9) you are to be damned as a heretic.
And this:

Originally Posted by SIXTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING JUSTIFICATION

"If anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works, but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of its increase, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 24).

Basically, this says you need to work for greater justification by good works, and that these good works are not merely the fruit of salvation, but the very means by which it is obtained and increased. And if you don't believe that, you are damned as a heretic.

So. The Ecumenical Movement. We can just all be right, yes? Not with those above statements still in effect. If Catholicism is to be satisfied, we cannot possibly teach salvation from the Protestant/Baptist perspective. And for the Protestant/Baptists to be satisfied, we cannot possibly teach salvation under the effect of those Council of Trent statements.