In-Vitro

[simplejoys]

Dear all,

Our college & career group was talking last night about how numerous issues are not SPECIFICALLY addressed in the Bible (genetic screening, nuclear weaponry, environmental destruction, etc.).

We came to in-vitro fertilization at one point in our discussion. What does God say about this? This is another major ethical dilemma...

[justified]

The Bible doesn't mention in-vitro fertilization, because it didn't exist. However, there are cases in the Old Testament when men have taken servants and had children by them, which isn't necessarily the same thing,bu is similair. Abraham had Ishmael, and Isaac. Jacob had two wives, Rachel and her sister. Rachel gave her servant to Jacob when she couldn't bear him children, and then her sister did aswell.
My personal opinion is that it is an ok thing to do. I think it is up to each individual.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

I disagree with IVF for many reasons...

I think it violates the dignity of the person. Each child deserves to be the fruit of love, not the product of a process--each child deserves to be conceived in a loving act by its mother and father, not conceived in the petri dish of a scientist.

Secondly, to get the sperm sample, a male must masterbate. I am deeply against this.

Thirdly, such a practice lends itself to embryo freezing, and other forms of cruelty and abuse of human life (abortion, etc.). Babies are babies, not "rights" or "balls of tissue". The embryo will become a living, breathing, and existing human being in every pregnancy scenario.

IVF is not an appropriate answer to infertility or difficulties in conceiving.

[justified]

Originally Posted by Fides_et_Ratio

I think it violates the dignity of the person. Each child deserves to be the fruit of love, not the product of a process--each child deserves to be conceived in a loving act by its mother and father, not conceived in the petri dish of a scientist.

Look for some people they can't conceive naturally, so they need assistance. Is it better for the man to take many more wives. Like Henry, he wanted an heir he killed many of his wives, because they couldn't give him an heir. If they had In-vitro fertilization back then, and Henry gained a male heir, the Anglican church wouldn't have split from the Catholics. If people can't have children on their own, and they really want children then this provides a way for them to do so.

Originally Posted by Fides_et_Ratio

Secondly, to get the sperm sample, a male must masterbate. I am deeply against this.

I understand what you are saying. and I kind of agree.

Originally Posted by Fides_et_Ratio

Thirdly, such a practice lends itself to embryo freezing, and other forms of cruelty and abuse of human life (abortion, etc.). Babies are babies, not "rights" or "balls of tissue". The embryo will become a living, breathing, and existing human being in every pregnancy scenario.

In-Vitro fertilization won't lead to abortion and doesn't lend itself to it. The parents want a child enough to go through the process. they aren't going to terminate their pregnancy.

Originally Posted by Fides_et_Ratio

IVF is not an appropriate answer to infertility or difficulties in conceiving.

I will say this again. There is no biblical pronouncement on this. because of this, it is a personal decision. I don't think you should enter into this lightly. However, I am pretty sure that the couples that go through the process didn't make this decision in a split second decision. They probablyt have struggled with it. It is something that should be carefully, and prayerfully considered.
There are many arguements that I can think against it. However, there are arguements for and against everything.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Originally Posted by justified

In-Vitro fertilization won't lead to abortion and doesn't lend itself to it. The parents want a child enough to go through the process. they aren't going to terminate their pregnancy.

What do you think they do with the "extra" embryos?

[justified]

they don't abort them, thats for sure. They do research or dispose of it. However, that isn't the same thing as abortion. Abortion is a different thing

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Originally Posted by justified

they don't abort them, thats for sure. They do research or dispose of it. However, that isn't the same thing as abortion. Abortion is a different thing

What is abortion generally speaking? The murder of an unborn child. What is "disposing of" or "doing research" on an embryo (that inevitably will be destroyed)? The murder of an unborn child. Different "techniques", same result.

[justified]

Abortion is taking the embryo out of the mothers womb causing it to not survive. The embryo in the petri dish never had a chance to become a baby, it wasn't in the womb of a woman. It isn't the same thing as abortion. I don't agree with abortion. I don't really know alot about testing on the embryo so I can't make a opinion about it. They may lead to the same result however that doesn't mean they are the same thing.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Originally Posted by justified

Abortion is taking the embryo out of the mothers womb causing it to not survive. The embryo in the petri dish never had a chance to become a baby, it wasn't in the womb of a woman. It isn't the same thing as abortion. I don't agree with abortion. I don't really know alot about testing on the embryo so I can't make a opinion about it. They may lead to the same result however that doesn't mean they are the same thing.

just trying to clarify...

so then are you of the opinion that the baby (for that is what each and every embryo would become) which was never implanted in a womb is so radically different that they aren't the same thing?

Yes, the techinical definition of an abortion involves a doctor operating on the mother and killing the baby. However, "destroying an embryo" (/killing the baby) involves the same people... only a different murder technique. Technique doesn't matter: murder is still murder.

[justified]

During the process of in-vitro fertilization the extra embryos are not implanted into the woman's womb, correct. Because they were never implanted into the woman they don't have the ability to be alive. I think that life begins at conception. However, that is when the embryo is inside the woman. The extra embryos are not being taken away from possibility of life in In-Vitro. They don't have the ability to become a human. If they were being palced in the womb and then taken out then there would be problems, because that is denying it life.